（对话开始前，安德烈大使先用中文和读者打招呼）

Andrei Denisov：各位朋友们、女士们、先生们，晚上好。很高兴有这样一个难得的机会，在冬末春初来到海南岛。我在中国住的时间比较长，一共20多年，好几次来过海南省，但最后一次是十年以前，这次来看到有很多变化。我本身的感觉还是非常好的，因为上有钱塘，下有海南岛。今天，就是3月2号，春天已经到了，中国人说春回大地，万物复苏，所以我特别高兴有机会重新来到海南。

Han Hua: Much of your career has been spent in China. What is your favorite recollection from that time? How do you think that experience has shaped your career?

Andrei Denisov: I've been dealing with China professionally for more than half a century, 51 years to be precise. My first visit here was as long ago as 1973, when I was still a student. It was not for studying Chinese, but professional practice as a Chinese interpreter.

From that time on, I've witnessed a lot of changes in this country in the 70s, in 80s, 90s and right now. The greatest thing I've seen here is the changes of the whole life in China, not only economics, not only scientific and technological progress, but changes to the life of ordinary people of China. I still remember the 1970s when life here was not so good, to be quite frank, because income of ordinary people, both in in towns, in the cities and in rural areas were very low. But my second visit, my second term in China as a diplomat was in 1978. So I had a unique chance to witness the launching point, the starting point of Chinese reforms，改革开放政策，刚刚起飞。

So that's why my greatest impression from my stay in China, 20 years if not more in total, is the unique progress of the whole Chinese society.

Han Hua: Being the former Russian ambassador to China, how do you perceive the current state of China Russia relations? And do you see them strengthening or facing challenges in the near future?

Andrei Denisov: No, I think that the Russian Chinese relationship are developing in a very good shape, and I modestly hope that my very small personal contribution in this process does exist as well.

I arrived in China as ambassador in year 2013 and stayed here until 2022, a little bit less than 10 years. It's a long time, even for an ambassador, but I was well prepared to come to China because I had previously spent over 10 years here when I was younger. I was not ambassador from the very beginning. I was junior staff of the embassy, of the trade mission, worked as interpreter and as a young diplomat.

I have come and gone to China, and every time we've seen a lot of progress, not only in Chinese domestic affairs, but in our bilateral relations since late 1980s, after normalization of the Soviet Union and China's relationship, 正常化. From 1990s, the progress in our relationship was also steady and rapid. And right now, as our leaders say, we have reached the highest ever level in history of bilateral collaboration. And I can only appreciate that I was one of the witnesses of that progress.

Han Hua: You are now a Russian senator. What do you think is the most important part of Putin’s state-of-the-nation address the day before yesterday in terms of relations with China?

Andrei Denisov: I think that Putin has just confirmed the fact that Russia's policy is steady, is stable and is aimed at future. From that point of view, it's absolutely obvious to me that under Putin's leadership, the friendship and cooperation between two countries, between two nations, between China's people and Russia's people will go on in a good shape.

Han Hua: Will Sino Russian relations change after the end of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine? How will it be different, if any?

Andrei Denisov: No, I think not, because the relationship of our two countries does not depend on the situations in other parts of the world and doesn't depend on other countries. While advancing in the cooperation, we'll have our own objectives, we have our own platform for such cooperation and it doesn't depend on any outside influences.

Han Hua: Throughout the history of Russia, especially since Peter the Great, Russia has seen alternating periods of engagement and confrontation with the West. How long do you think the current period of relative confrontation will last?

Andrei Denisov: They are just like waves in the sea, there are ups and downs. Now we have almost reached the bottom in relations with Western countries. It depends on Western countries only, on the United States in particular.

First of all, I'm an old man. I've seen different periods in our relationship with western countries, with the European countries, with the United States, with countries like Japan. There were periods of relatively good relations, but that goodness was very fragile. Now we have reached, as I said, the bottom. But we have to stand, as Chinese people say, 站得更高一些，看得更远一些。

My hope is that one day or another, we’ll come back to a normal relationship with our partners in other parts of the world, because in the modern world, global world, the level of mutual dependency is very high, economically and culturally. That's why I think the current situation is abnormal, and normal situation should be the restoration of those relationship.s We don't need any special approach, special attitude or special friendly relationship, we just want normal relationship for the benefits of both sides, of the people living there and here, in my country and in other countries.

Han Hua: Does this normal relations in your description include a new security order? Russia has repeatedly stressed that it is unhappy with the NATO dominated security order in Europe. What is a security order that Russia would like to see in Europe or around the world?

Andrei Denisov: Russia, as a country, is very modest in its aspirations. The only thing we need is safety and security for us just to develop our country, to increase the living standards of our people and to live in good relationship and friendly cooperation with neighboring countries and other countries of the world. So very modest and very normal aspirations.

That's why we are concerned with the safety and security of our people of Russia, of my country, of my nation. And if there is no threat, then there is no concern. But it's the right of my people, of my country to judge and to say whether we feel threat or not. We feel threat coming from NATO, from western countries which want to dominate, want to play the upper hand in a relationship with my country. The only thing we want is fairness and equality. If we reach fairness, equality and mutual concern regarding the threats to our safety and security, well, fine. I think then we’ll reach the goal of restoring normal relationships with other countries, with our neighbors, with whom we lived for centuries in close proximity. We will never disappear from the European geographic map, and our neighbors will never disappear. So we have to live together and we have to build up our relationship in a normal way, in a good neighborly way, without hostility and without domination.

Han Hua: Specifically, what kind of measures do you think Russia and its counterpart can take towards avoiding this NATO dominated security order?

Andrei Denisov: Well, the only thing we can do is to convince, to persuade our neighbors that their approach is unreasonable. They will never force Russia to be like the junior member of a family. No, we have the moral right to be equals, sitting around the table. And from that point of view, I think when we reach such mutual understanding, when our neighbors realize that there is no way to deal with Russia like we’re junior or subordinate, then probably we’ll reach what we want to reach.

Han Hua: Speaking of the good living of people, what will you be watching for this year's BRICS summit in Russia, and what should the world be watching for?

Andrei Denisov: BRICS is a relatively young international forum, it’s only 15 years old. Last year, the number of BRICS members doubled, from five to 10 now. Russia undertakes the presidency of BRICS in the crucial year of its development, since we have to determine how should we develop further on the new basis of an expanded membership, and how to deal with those countries who want to and have expressed their wish to join that forum; there is quite a big number, 20 if not more. So we have to build up new structures of our forum, new rules of functioning and discussing new objectives in the current 10 members framework.

Secondly, we have to discuss some practical issues, which will help all 10 members of BRICS to survive. For my country, we can say to survive, maybe for other countries it’s to live in a better world. For example, we can push for tighter economic cooperation, financial relations, which will help us not to be so highly dependent on other countries for international financial and monetary systems, to build our economies in a mutually beneficial way. So those are the key objectives for the presidency of my country in BRICS for this year, 2024.

Han Hua: You mentioned that ten BRICS member countries might have different agendas. For Russia, it might be to survive. For other countries, it might be economic development. How do you coordinate this difference?

Andrei Denisov: To my mind, basic interest matters. Yes, we have differences. BRICS countries, either 5 as it was before, or 10 as it is now, are rather different countries, but they are all big countries. They play influential roles in their respective regions of the globe. And from that point of view, they have mutual and basically identical interest in achieving peace, stability, development and mutual cooperation to provide better life for their peoples. So from that point of view, we can get together and we can deal as one team.

Han Hua: How have western sanctions affected your work as a diplomat broadly? What is your advice to new diplomat in navigating today's complex world?

Andrei Denisov: Well, it depends. When I was younger, I enjoyed a much more open world for people like me. I have had no problems in visiting other countries in Europe, in the United States. I worked in the United States for some time, 10, 20 years ago. Now, there are some limitations and obstacles, there are some unfair regulations; diplomatic life for some of my younger colleagues (because I'm a retired diplomat now) are not so easy and not so well going. The best advice to my younger colleagues both in my country and other countries as well, is to serve their nation and their country, and put that principle in the first place.

A diplomatic career is very interesting. It helps young people just to travel a lot, to live in other countries, to see how people live there, to study foreign languages. So it's an interesting career. Yes, there are some troubles, yes there are some obstacles, yes there are some difficulties, hardships even, because there is quite a number of countries where wars are going on or the whole situation is not so good from the point of view of personal safety and security. But diplomatic presence is very important, and we and our Chinese colleagues and people from other countries have to serve their countries in different parts of the world. So it's better for young people to be prepared for such troubles, and clearly understand that the interesting moments of a diplomatic career overweigh these troubles.

Han Hua: Secretary Blinken mentioned in the Munich Security Conference that if you're not on the table, you're on the menu. Ambassador Wu Hailong mentioned this and made some comments about the Secretary of State’s words; just now you said Russia does not have special aspirations, Russia just want to go back to the table not as a junior member, but as an equal partner. How do you see Blinken’s comments regarding tables and menus?

Andrei Denisov: It depends on our partners around the table. But when Blinken said that some are equal around the table and some are not, my foreign minister replied, beware of choking, sitting around such a table where you consider others as juniors who are not there to be seated. If the table is round, then everybody must be in an equal position.

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